Harry Potter: for those of you who are interested...

[olde_fashioned]

For the record, I am utterly opposed to Harry Potter and other books involving and glorifying witchcraft. THIS is a link to Doug Phillips' blog, that explains the dangers of Harry Potter much better than I ever could.

Comments

[prima-donna87.livejournal.com]

I am not into the Harry Potter thing either,glad to see I am not the only one.:)

[elainastone.livejournal.com]

You aren't, by far the only one. ;)

Didn't read the article...but, you know...even disregarding the magic, there's some major moral problems. Harry, as all these kids' role-model, is a very, very bad boy. And gets *away* with it all the time. I just think it's beyond frustrating that people like him so much.

It's sort of like all the girls that say they'd love to marry Erik, the Phantom of the Opera.

Why don't we just go out and TRY to get ourselves in oodles of trouble!

[olde-fashioned.livejournal.com]

Again, you aren't the only one, at all! :-)

[anodiel.livejournal.com]

Something I've tried to make a point of is that by reading those books, one opens themselves up to being spirtually attacked. I've actually had a Christian say that wouldn't happen to them because they were being protected by God. I told them in return that being a Christian makes you first target for being attacked because those kind of forces want to harm Christians more than a non-believer.

[olde-fashioned.livejournal.com]

You are exactly right -- and that's something I should have mentioned in my actual post. And I've had people say they're protected by God as well. But I believe we also have to protect ourselves. If we willingly, negligently, expose ourselves to such blatant dangers then I think we're asking for trouble. God warns us so that we can be alert and avoid those dangers, not walk head-long into them because we think they're "fun" or a good read. We're supposed to put on the armour of God, not leave it behind because we're confident God's going to do all the work for us.

[elainastone.livejournal.com]

The thing is..and what I really like about the article, because it hints to it... Is that Harry Potter was only inevitable. We allowed it to come in by not taking a stand against the other popular science fiction of the day. And I'm not talking about all the usual things that come to mind either. I'm talking about the fact that, even before HP, ALL that was available for adventure-seeking readers ARE magic-related books.

And when the obvious comes, we act all surprised about it.


People are very bad about not watching for spiritual attacks. And the demons are being maddeningly good right now about making all the world fight about this issue and ignore the things that really come in and wedge problems.

It's amazing how it works.

[oldfashioned84.livejournal.com]

I just read that article and thought it was great. I couldn't have said it better myself either. It worries me when I think about what kids are growing up on these days -- everything from tv shows to rap music to Harry Potter. Parents today just don't realize how influential this stuff can be on a kid's mind which is very impressionable, and then they wonder why their kids turn out the way they do when they grow up.

[olde-fashioned.livejournal.com]

I'm glad you read it, Jen! Does this influence your thinking in anyway?

And you're exactly right.

[charmed-hour.livejournal.com]

I think that was well stated!

[olde-fashioned.livejournal.com]

Thank you for the comment!

[musesong.livejournal.com]

I guess I am a voice of dissent. Still I respect your position even if I cannot support it.

Although I am not a Christian I do know that the Church of England quite supports the series. Rowling herself is a Christian though may take a more liberal stand than you or Mr. Phillips.

There certainly have been Christians who have practiced magic. I am sure many wise women and cunning men who practiced folk magic in times past considered themselves Christian.

[olde-fashioned.livejournal.com]

We are each entitled to our own opinions, and thank you for not bashing.

Many Christians unfortunately support that which the Bible condemns. Thousands of churches have openly gay bishops and pastors, yet God is clearly against that kind of behaviour. Proverbs 14:12 warns us "There is a way which seemeth right to a man, but the end of it are the ways of death" and not to lean on our own understanding. We are imperfect beings with imperfect minds, and to even think that we know better than God is ridiculous, not to mention dangerous.

If Rowling is a Christian then she is clearly a misguided one. The Bible says it would better for one who leads little ones astray to be drowned with a millstone around their neck, and Heaven only knows how many children have been forever ensnared by Rowling's books.

Christians practicing magic is mutually exclusive. You might as well say you're a Muslim Catholic. The two don't mix. Each condemns the other, and God doesn't allow straddling both sides of the fence. We are either for Him, or against Him. There is no middle ground.

[belovedrose85.livejournal.com]

I don't like Harry Potter, either. It gives me the creeps, to be honest. It really bothers me to see people who call themselves Christians get into this kind of stuff, completely ignorant of what God has to say on the subject of witchcraft and wizardry!
Although, it almost bothers me more when people who condemn Harry Potter fully support things like LOTR and Chronicles of Narnia, things that seem to have just as much wizardry and magic in them. I guess it makes me all the more thankful for those Christians who choose to keep themselves "unspotted from the world". :)

[musesong.livejournal.com]

Yet Tolkien was a solid Catholic and consider his creation a fundamentally religious and in accord with Catholic theology even though his works were not allegorical in the way the Chronicles of Narnia were. Aslan being Christ in that world.

C.S. Lewis is considered one of the great writers on Christianity (at least in England) and the Inklings, the group were originally called the 'Oxford Christians'.

You may wish to distance yourself from all references in art and literature to magic but my local quite conservative Christian bookshop has no problems selling these books. Not sure if they are so keen on Harry Potter.

[olde-fashioned.livejournal.com]

I think unfortunately that sometimes people allow fond memories and pleasure to cloud their judgement.

I'd like to know why witchcraft packaged behind a "Christian allegory" label makes it okay. There is no difference IMVHO.

[micalela.livejournal.com]

Y'all are cracked. You talk about how Harry Potter is dangerous but at the same time y'all state that are spiritual attacks everywhere. While I love your icons I seriously don't like your point of views. My problem with a lot of christians are how righteous and hypocritical they are. It is not a christians place to judge but they do it all the time. Can't you just say I don't like Harry Potter because you don't like the books. No you have to add it to some supposed christian view point. Read the history of Christianity. I think you'd be more surprised than you ever expected. I'm removing myself from your journal. Good luck.

[musesong.livejournal.com]

Hi Micalela,

I'm going to jump in here. I feel that olde_fashioned has been quite courageous in expressing exactly why she is against the Potter books. I am sure she was aware it would be a controversial stand with some of her readers.

She is very clear in her userinfo about her religious beliefs and this was something I knew before I friended her icon journal. While our spiritual backgrounds and points of view on topics such as this may differ, we still share a love of many things.

[musesong.livejournal.com]

Hi - it's me again. I was browsing the net and came across this statement from youth pastor Connie Neal:

It's one thing to say, "I personally choose not to read Harry Potter because to me, this equates to real witchcraft, and therefore I want nothing to do with it." But we step over the line when we say, "Because I think the Potter books equate to real world witchcraft, I insist that everyone else adopt my interpretation”even though the author has made clear that she did not mean it as real-world witchcraft." They take the view that the Potter books are promoting real occultism to everyone who reads them.

It's taken from a 2001 interview here (http://www.breakpoint.org/listingarticle.asp?ID=5659).

You might want to visit Connie Neal's website (http://www.connieneal.com/index.html) as she does seem to be very aware of the issues and concerns about the books.

[elainastone.livejournal.com]

Hi musesong!


Using this reply, but I'm really here to comment on a few things that you've said.

First of all, I really love how you are so respectful in your disagreements and I already have a great liking for you as a person. Secondly, I absolutely love debates/arguments so I really appreciate your perspective. Thirdly though, this is for you olde-fashioned, my apologies in advance if you'd really rather us not talk. Let me know, and I'll shut my laptop on the discussion. :)

You're getting into some pretty deep things here, and neither will I say that I'm the best person to state my view with good wrapping or even enough, but if you'll bear with me, I'll try.

First off... You mentioned something about only taking Jesus' teachings from the Bible. Well, you can't do that without taking the Bible as a whole, because Jesus TAUGHT from the Old Testament. He used it to hold many of his words to be truth, and he was a Jew. So he followed it. Despite not having all the discussions penned down for us in the gospels, there are quite a few incidents were Jesus is found expounding on the scriptures. After his death, he had a long talk with his disciples in which he expounded ALL of the scriptures to them. Also, Jesus IS the Word. To say that you're going to follow Jesus' teachings is to say you're following the Bible. The Bible isn't simply an inspiration. It is the word of God.

Secondly, both you and another commenter made the statement that we should judge others and the Bible says we shouldn't. ACTUALLY, the Bible says we SHOULD. It says we should never try condemning anyone, because we can't possibly judge another person's soul, but we are supposed to try the spirits, and we are supposed to help each other out in the spiritual battle. I know people try to use the scripture that says we shouldn't be taking specks out of people's eyes when we have motes in our own..But people STOP there. It actually goes on to say that we need to get the mote out of our eye FIRST so we can see clearly to get the speck out of our brother's eye. So there is a judgment there, but also a warning that we need to be sure we're right with God ourselves.

To say that we shouldn't "impose our views" on other people would be directly against God's commandments. We should educate people in what is right and wrong.

But, you know, it's kind of hard to get the unsaved sinner to follow God's principles. That's one thing that we do that Jesus never ever did. On the other hand, I don't think it's a bad thing in the least to let the world know where we stand. And it's not a bad thing to try to get other Christians to try to search out the scriptures and find God's will for issues.

And if Connie Neal or anyone else can prove to me that my view of the scriptures is wrong, and that God's will is really such and such, then I'd gladly follow that other view. But I don't believe that's the case, and I will stick by God and His Word and keep searching out to understand myself in the meantime.

[olde-fashioned.livejournal.com]

Hi again! :-)

I looked into Connie Neal and the links you gave me, and thank you, they were interesting.

I don't know if I'm being unclear or not, but by stating my beliefs of Harry Potter, LotR, and Narnia, I am not demanding everyone else adopt my views. I'm merely stating them, the same way as I might state certain costume dramas are my favourite or that I can't stand certain types of music. I'm not saying that I know all, or even that I know better, so please don't think that. If I am coming off in a manner such as I have described then please forgive me. The last thing in the world that I want to do is tell other people how to think!

Also, Connie Neal seems to stand upon the arguement that Harry Potter is okay because LotR and Narnia depict similar elements, and that if we're going to condemn HP we'd have to chuck Lewis and Tolkien out the window, too. I haven't read anything so far other than those comparisons and the "it's harmless and pretend" argument to convince me of her POV.

On a side note, her books seem to be published by Zondervan, who is also the publisher that came out with the "gender-neutral" Bible which removed all references that suggested God was male.

[yeshua-myprince.livejournal.com]

You certainly sparked some discussion with this post! :)
I agree with you...oh yes and Raul is certainly better than the evil Phantom, no matter how tortured he is. *grin*

http://decentfilms.com/sections/articles/magic.html
That, (I'm not catholic) also was a very good article I thought. Balanced, and perhaps more approchable for those who are already into HP.

Interesting stuff. :)

[olde-fashioned.livejournal.com]

I know! But I want people to know where I stand on things like this.

Thanks for the link -- I'll finish reading it when I have a little more time. But what I did read was interesting.

[katy-maud.livejournal.com]

I've been 'snooty' so far, and haven't deigned to read the books . . . but I have watched the movies. I haven't gotten obsessed. I don't even remotely like it. And I think that J.K. Rowling looks like a witch. There. I've said it.

[midenianscholar.livejournal.com]

I'm not really a fan of HP, but I'm not incredibly against it either. I've sort of taken a passive stance on it. My mom is desperate to get my little brother into reading, and has been doing research, etc., on it. She found that the theme of the series actually turns out to be a Christian theme. So from her perspective, it's worth getting Philip to read it in order to get him hooked on reading. Like every other young teen he has a (rather sad) fascination with the films so she's hoping that that'll help him get into it, since he's already read Narnia and is too young for Tolkien.

Anyhow, my older sister has the opinion (which I sort of agree with) that you can't have a valid argument/opinion if you haven't personally read the book to see what you think. A while ago I almost took her up on it, but now I just have no desire to really get in the problem at all. But it is a good idea to act on if you want to pursue it.

Anyhow (again), I'm just hoping it's a fad and will die off now.

[olde-fashioned.livejournal.com]

I don't believe it's in my nature to be passive. ;-P

If your brother is in need of reading material, I would strongly suggest you look into G.A. Henty books for him. VisionForum.com sells them, and they're wonderful. I simply cannot praise them enough, and aside from the adventure you get a lot of history, too. ;-)

I disagree with you sister. There are plenty of movies I avoid because of the subject matter, ratings, etc.

Ditto on that score!

[sabrinafair2.livejournal.com]

I've had many friends who have criticized me and said some rather hurtful things to me about reading Harry Potter. Personally I think there is nothing wrong about the books. However, I'm glad you've stated your opinion without bashing people who do read them. I believe fortune telling and actually practicing magic isn't good though. But I doubt that any child who comes across reading the books are actually going to practice magic because of it. IMO their are quite some significant Christian ties to the books. Specifically the seventh as Harry is called the "Chosen One" and has a scene quite reminiscent to Jesus's time in the Garden of Gethsemane. Plus his arch-enemy, Lord Voldemort, being a bit of a combination between Hitler/Satan.

Again this is just my personal opinion...I hope I don't seem like I'm bashing or whatever.

[olde-fashioned.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry people have hurt you because you read HP. That certainly isn't my goal, and I hope nothing I said has inflicted pain. Thank you for being understanding and respectful of my beliefs, and you aren't bashing at all. :-D We can just agree to disagree. ;-)