olde_fashioned: (TDK -- enemies)
[personal profile] olde_fashioned
Well, I've finally seen The Dark Knight. I thought it would have to be when it was released on DVD, but Spencer's friends took him in Utah and when he came back, he said he was dying to talk about it with me, so he treated me. :-) I have the best brother. *hugs him* He missed the first ten minutes the first time around, apparently, and since he was not at all opposed to seeing it a second time, just the two of us went to a local theater for an eight o'clock showing yesterday evening. It was great fun!

Now, consider yourself warned that I'm going to go on (and on...and on...) in a long, boring, and detailed review, but I'm putting anything spoilery behind a cut so others can read my general (and non-spoilery) opinions if they haven't seen the movie yet and/or don't want to read about what parts I liked best, lol. ;-) Click the cut only if you don't mind spoilers, gushing, and over analyzing of characters and their development! ;-P

Okay, first, a little bit of history.



Having grown up (and then grown out of) watching the cartoons on the WB as a kid, I guess I've always had a soft spot for Batman. He's my favourite superhero, and always has been -- because he's the most realistic. Honestly, super-strong aliens from outer space, and radioactive spiders biting teenagers? *heavy lidded glare* When Batman Begins came out a few years ago, I assumed it was the typical superhero remake, or just another installment in the campy Batman franchise. Christian Bale? Who the heck is he? Another Batman movie? No thanks, I'll pass.

Boy, was I proved wrong.


Second, the obvious -- Wow. Wow wow wow wow WOW! I thought the movie was great. Absolutely fantastic. Fabulous, first-rate acting, even more fabulous plotting and scriptwriting, combined to make a movie that was very well-made and in a word, awesome. I don't go to the theater often, (haven't been since 2001, believe it or not) but I think it's safe to say that I haven't seen a movie in theaters that I liked this much since being a little kid and loving Beauty and the Beast, lol. TDK certainly lived up to expectations and is probably one of the best sequels that I've seen. Usually a francise seems to drift away from its roots, and get cheesy by the second installment, but there wasn't really anything lame in this.

It was indeed very dark; it is, after all, The Dark Knight. It was not, however, nearly as dark and depressing as I expected. Yes, the Joker (played to near Oscar-worthy perfection by the late Heath Ledger) is the epitomy of evil. Think of the baddest baddie you can imagine, and he's twice as bad as that. He is cold, cruel, calculated, heartless and unthinkably evil, and not only is he bad himself, but he tries his hardest to get other people to become like him. In that way he is like Satan, tempting and pushing others beyond their limits in an attempt to get them to "get off the curb and join him in the gutter." He delights in turning ordinary and even good people into crazed criminals who will do anything and stop at nothing.



I also have a couple of thoughts regarding the title, "The Dark Knight". I think it's a pun, and I think it's intentional. Not only does it tie into Batman filling his traditional role of protector of the city, (hence, "knight"), but IMO it also means "The Dark Night", or "the darkest night," as in "The night is darkest just before the dawn." Clearly, Gotham is going through probably the darkest period in its history, as well are several of the characters. There is possibly even more suffering endured by Batman/Bruce Wayne that he encountered in the first movie, his parents' murder excepted.


Even though I do agree with the general consensus that Heath Ledger probably deserves an Oscar for his last role (at the very least a nomination) I do not think this was the Joker's movie, as so many have said. He was the principle villain, yes, but the movie belonged to Batman, "utterly and completely." (bonus points to whoever knows what that's from!) Christian Bale doesn't disappoint as the alternately human Bruce Wayne and equally tortured Batman, and his acting was so subtle that if you blink you'll miss a major hint of character development. This is definitely a film you have to see more than once to fully appreciate.



Okay, now that this is safe behind a cut, who remembers THIS POST?? I KNEW they were going to kill off Rachel Dawes, I just knew it knew it knew it!!! It was only logical. Call me annoying, call me a smart aleck, call me Alfred, whatever you like, but I told you so. :-P

Harvey Dent was surprisingly likeable. I knew he was supposed to be "the good guy" before his Two Face transformation, but I was surprised at how much I found myself liking him. The scene with him almost getting shot in the courtroom but disarming the witness was great!! The way he dissassembled the weapon, then proceeded to rattle off the make and country of origin (China) then retort that it would take an American gun to bring him down, heheheh! ;-D They made Harvey into such a wonderful man that it was really a pity he had to stoop to such shameful lows after losing Rachel. His face was probably a bit unrealistic (infection??) but certainly convinsingly grotesque. While he was entertaining enough, I really hope they let him stay dead and don't resurrect him for a third movie. I don't think he would be "big" enough to hang around as the villain for any longer than he already has.

I almost bought the whole Gordon-is-dead thing, and I would have, had I not kept thinking of Comissioner Gordon from the cartoons and comics, but seeing the visit to his poor wife very nearly made me believe he was dead in spite of all that. But when he showed up behind the Joker -- saving Batman -- hooray!! Everyone in the theater applauded, myself included. (Yes, you are indeed correct -- I am a dork.)

And speaking of Rachel, as much as Katie Holmes' inferiour performance in the first movie irritated me, I sorely missed her in this installment. I couldn't warm to Maggie Gyllenhaal at all, and as callous as it sounds I mostly felt sorry at her death because of how much it affected Bruce/Batman. His standing despondingly atop the rubble was so sad, and the scene with him sitting in a chair back in his penthouse, still in his batsuit, only sans mask, was really sad and quite pitiable. He looked to me to be on the verge of tears, and I nearly got mad at Alfred for not giving him a hug, especially when Bruce said, "She was going to wait for me, Alfred." Poor guy. I'm glad Alfred burned the letter. (don't even get me started on that stupid woman, rejecting the best man in Gotham like that??! Sheesh...)

I'm continually amazed, both in TDK and it's predecessor Batman Begins, at how much acting Christian Bale can do with only half his face. He's got a mask on most of the time he's on screen, and yet you can still tell what he's thinking and feeling. The very last scenes in TDK especially, especially, when he's wounded and looks like he's ready to pass out when he's trying to convince Harvey Dent (now Two-Face) to not murder Jim Gordon's son in a misplaced vengeful rage stemming from the murder of his fiance Rachel. Little does he know, however, that he wasn't the only man who lost the woman he loved. Batman comes dangerously close to telling him this, which I thought was very interesting. The whole "showdown" between Gordon, Batman, and Two Face, trying to convince the latter not to harm the family of the former was edge-of-your-seat drama. I really thought Gordon's son was going to die, and seeing everyone reduced to such emotional wreckage was really heart-rending.

"Let me get this straight. You think your client, one of the wealthiest, most powerful people in the world, is secretly a vigilante who spends his nights beating up criminals to a bloody pulp with his bare hands, and your plan, is to blackmail this person?...Good luck!"


Did anyone else want to wring that scrawny little weaselly accountant that worked for Wayne Enterprises by the neck?!? What a guy! He wants to blackmail, then expose on national television, someone who's trying to save a dying city from itself and the criminals who prey on it? Grrrrrr... Gotta love how Fox dealt with him, even though it didn't really fix the problem. It served him right to have half the city lusting after his blood when the Joker put a price on his head. Now he knows how Batman feels. And how about the way Batman/Bruce Wayne totalled his (rather nice and shiny...) Lamborghini to save the scum who wanted to ruin him? I loved that part. Great way of pretending to be in ignorance of the whole thing so as to fool Gordon, but heap "coals of fire" on the head of that little rat with one significant glace at the same time. Greaaaat scene.

Did anyone else think Batman should have turned himself in when the Joker demanded it, and started killing people until he complied? I did not at all. I would have been almost annoyed had he been allowed to go through with it, since it would have been such an utter waste. I mean, I can totally understand why the character would be tortured by the thought of innocents being murdered because of him, but this is kind of a different way of asking the same question of should we negotiate with terrorists? Giving in to the demands of evil people would be acknowledging them as in control, and for that reason alone I think the good should resist the tyrannical demands of evil, come what may.


This movie tackles several age-old questions about the nature of right and wrong, which I found rather refreshing. Too many Hollywood productions and movie heroes fail the test of morality, but I am happy to say that TDK did not. Tempted, pushed, and even thrown past his limits, Batman does not "cross the line" and break his moral code.



No matter how sorely he is tempted (and he most certainly is tempted, that is painfully clear) to kill the Joker in order to stop him from destroying Gotham, he will not, will not kill him. In both TDK and BB, there is a common theme of the only thing that divides good men from evil men are their choices. What separates good from evil, if they make use of the same limitless methods? Who decides what is good, and what is evil, if there is no difference between the hero and the villain? Can good men do bad things, and still remain "good"? I know nothing about the worldview of director Christopher Nolan and the rest of this film's makers, but the message of this movie is that the end does not justify the means.

One rather uplifting element in an otherwise depressing scene is the two ferries. Both wired with bombs, one loaded with innocent civillians, the other with hardened criminals, each will explode at midnight if one does not destroy the other first. Both boatloads of people yell, argue, and fight amongst themselves. "Survival of the fittest" becomes "survival of those who are fit to live." The criminals aren't, argue the citizens; they've had their chance at a decent life. But even after much debate, and a vote which declares an overwhelming majority in favour of blowing up the other boat, each comes shamefully close, but no one wants to push the button that will destroy the other ferry. After midnight has come and gone, each ferry realizes that the other did not blow them to pieces. The realization that they did not want to kill each other was rather touching, IMO, and Batman almost exultingly throws this up to the Joker's face, when he comes close to quoting a line from the first movie. Not everyone is evil, and there are still good people out there. Gotham is worth saving.


This movie, with its violence and dark storyline which are offensive to some and horrifying to others, is not a symptom of a derilect and rotten society, it is a warning of what just a society will become. When you take away the value of human life, the moral values that are the crutches and very life-support of civilization, when decent people look the other way in fear and apathy, Gotham is what you get. "Evil triumphs when good men do nothing."

I may be over analyzing this movie, I may be a dork and total loser for writing such a ridiculously long review, and I may be reading too much into the nuances and themes incorportated into the plot, but in my humble opinion, they are there, if you look. One reason I've allowed myself to enjoy these movies so much is because of their strong moral compass, their (excuse the word) "passion" and intensity, and heretofore decent worldview. Quite refreshing, IMVHO.



Alright already, enough intellectual nonsense, let's get to the fun stuff. For all it's heavy plots and dark twists, TDK wasn't entirely devoid of humour!! I laughed in several places, and despite having seen it previously in a trailer, I loved it when Rachel hit the Joker and he says, "Ooooh, I like that," to which Batman suddenly appears and replies, "Then you're going to love me!"

I also got a big laugh out of Lucius Fox/Morgan Freeman taking jab at the impeccably-clad Bruce Wayne when he mentions that he needs a new suit; referring, of course to Batman. "Three buttons are a bit 'nineties, Mr. Wayne..." ROFTLOL!!! Heck, forget Heath Ledger -- Armani should get an Oscar for Bruce's drool-worthy suits!! lol. I caught his name in the credits, but designer duds or no, you've got to admit Bruce Wayne knows how to dress. ;-) Rachel's not too bad, either. She had a pair of t-straps on that looked surprisingly like my new ones...

Two and a half hours was not nearly long enough!! When it ended, I was surprised. It could have gone on for another hour, and I would not have felt it overly long at all. The movie just grabbed your attention and never let go for an instant until the endcredits began to roll.

I'm going to miss the Tumbler. *sobs*

Did anyone else catch the reference to cats?!?!!

Aaaaannnnnndddd......one last quote. ;-P

"What's the difference between you and me?!" [spoken by hokey-looking Batman wannabe dressed in cheezy looking "Batman-esque" garb]

"I'm not wearing hockey pads!"

*dies laughing*

Okay, I just know I'm going to forget something I wanted to say, but unless I want to be here all night, I think I'm going to stop now. ;-P If you've read all this, then I am amazed and astonished and very pleased with you, lol. ;-)

Date: 2008-09-01 07:22 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ladyneferankh.livejournal.com
* has clicked , but kept hand over screen to avoid any spoilery stuff *

Great review--I am not a Batman fan, but your glowing opinion intrigues me enough that I might actually have to see this one ;-), and I find your take on it very intriguing! :D

PS
See I told you that you deserved a treat once in a while! ;-)

Date: 2008-09-01 07:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] olde-fashioned.livejournal.com
Heee heee! I had hard work to avoid spoilers, between icons and trailers and other people talking about it. ;-P

You know, I was not at all interested in Batman Begins when it came out, but it was surprisingly good. You could take out the whole "Batman" theme to these, and they would still stand alone as great vigilante and crime-fighting movies. *AND* they're only rated PG-13. ;-P

P.S. Awww...:-D

Date: 2008-09-01 12:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] visionsbeyond.livejournal.com
yay!!!! olde I`m so glad you enjoyed this movie ! I was a bit unsure myself when I went for it the first time coz well...we are,as you mentioned, 'The Beauty and the Beast' people ! lol ! But one sure can`t deny the quality of this movie ! Loved your analysis of the title 'The Dark Knight' and I completely agree ! Rachel Dawes - yup I didn`t like her either (DROPPING BRUCE WAYNE !!!!) But unlike you I was surprised that she died ! Didn`t see that coming !
I see your current music selection has taken a break from Hayley Westenra ;)Love the TDK soundtrack to death ! I`m so obsessed with the movie that I even made a little trailer just to feed my obsession ! lol !
I can`t wait for the DVD to come out ! :D

Date: 2008-09-01 10:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] olde-fashioned.livejournal.com
LOL! Well I'm not unwilling to see and even possibly enjoy "mainstream" movies, just so long as they meet a few criteria first. ;-)

I KNOW! I think Rachel must have been dropped on her head as a baby. SHEESH! Stupid woman.

LOL, aha, yes, you caught me...I was trying to write all of the above, and somehow Hayley wasn't helping me do that, ha ha. ;-P

DVD? Heck, I can't wait for the THIRD movie to come out!!!

Date: 2008-09-01 12:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] janeite723.livejournal.com
"Utterly and completely"...from the Colin Firth P&P. I could probably recite that whole movie, haha.

Date: 2008-09-01 10:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] olde-fashioned.livejournal.com
Hooray for you!!! *claps* You are correct! ;-D

Date: 2008-09-01 01:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] misseri44.livejournal.com
I already had heard many good reviews about the movie when i went to see it, but I didn't think it would be that good, i've read your review and i couldn't have written better, loved the humor scenes (specially the part with Alfred taking with Dent about ex-boyfriends), and although Heath Ledger was great as the Joker, i think i enjoyed Aaron Eckhart's performance, having the role of the white knight, as they called him and then turning to the
bad
side after Rachel's death

Date: 2008-09-01 10:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] olde-fashioned.livejournal.com
Rarely do I agree with the critics, but this time I do.

Yes, the ex-boyfriend thing was a riot!! I saw that in the trailer and thought it was very funny. I also agree that Aaron Eckhart did a great job as Harvey, and he was an interesting contrast to Bruce/Batman, but I disagree that he was the better man, as they implied in the end. Batman's the better man of the two, IMNSHO...

(lol, I thought your icon was of Christian Bale and I was like, "OKAY, what scene is THAT?!" lol.)

Date: 2008-09-02 12:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] misseri44.livejournal.com
With Dent i think the director wanted to show us how can a person change that much, from being the great man the city thought to almost kill a child (even if he used the money to decide it). Obviously the best of them is Bruce/Batman, and it was explained perfectly by Gordon, he's the one who will
sacrifice
himself in order to keep Dent's crimes hidden. I still don't understand how would Rachel leave him for Dent...

The icon is from Iron Man, this year has given us some good superheroe movies

Date: 2008-09-02 11:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] olde-fashioned.livejournal.com
Good point. But did you think the movie was claiming Harvey was the better man, or Bruce? Because everyone (including Gordon and Batman/Bruce) were saying that he was the better man, something I really disagreed with. I liked Gordon's dialogue at the end, "So we'll hunt him, because he can take it."

I still don't understand how would Rachel leave him for Dent...

LOL, ME NEITHER!!!!!! :-P My brother thinks her brain got messed up after inhaling Crane's toxin from the first movie. ;-P

Date: 2008-09-03 12:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] misseri44.livejournal.com
Tricky question...I think the director wants us to believe that Dent is the best man among them, but seeing Batman and Bruce's actions (when he crushed the Lambo to save his employee, he has some rules and he won't break them) you see that he's the one and only good man in the city, although neither citizens or politicians and police realize it.

My brother thinks her brain got messed up after inhaling Crane's toxin from the first movie. ;-P


That could be one of the reasons, the man is about to give up Batman for you and you write that letter saying that you'll marry the other, that broke my heart, at least Alfred burned it and I think it was the best he could do

Date: 2008-09-04 05:46 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] olde-fashioned.livejournal.com
Do you think the director wants us to believe it, or do you think he wants to trick us into believing it?

I loved the "crushing of the Lambo" as you put it. That was a really really good scene, and showed what kind of person he was. To practically toss your own life up in the air to save someone who essentially wants to destroy yours? Wow.

he's the one and only good man in the city, although neither citizens or politicians and police realize it.


I couldn't have put it better myself. ;-)

I maintain that Rachel's nuts and one very stupid lady. ;-P

Date: 2008-09-04 07:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] misseri44.livejournal.com
His trick is make us believe Dent is the good guy, only to see that all of us have a dark side

I maintain that Rachel's nuts and one very stupid lady. ;-P


Yeah, i agree with you

Date: 2008-09-04 09:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] olde-fashioned.livejournal.com
*ponders*

;-P

Date: 2008-09-01 02:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] victoria-tonks.livejournal.com
I haven't seen TDK as of yet - wasn't going to, truth be told, but after reading your review (well, the non-spoilery parts :D) I think I may go and watch it. Looks like it really is a movie with the message!

Date: 2008-09-01 10:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] olde-fashioned.livejournal.com
Have you seen Batman Begins? TDK heavily ties into BB, and while it could stand very well on its own without the first movie, I would highly advise watching the first movie beforehand. ;-) Not only would it "prepare" you, but it would be a helpful indicator of if you'll enjoy TDK, as well. (i.e., if you hate BB, I doubt you'd like TDK)

Both movies have a message, and that's one of the things I like about them. Plus they're realistic.

Date: 2008-09-02 09:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] victoria-tonks.livejournal.com
No, I haven't seen it. Thanks for your advice, though.

Plus they're realistic.

Wow, that's a lot to be said for a movie based on a comic book! But that certainly makes me want to see it. I love realism deftly combined with fantasy.

Date: 2008-09-02 11:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] olde-fashioned.livejournal.com
You're welcome! :-D It's slightly scary, if you scare easy, or if you have young children. It's more a "jumpy" kind of scary rather than horror, if you know what I mean.

I know!! It's amazing at how well they've taken these stories and made them believeable. They're incredibly well-made.

Date: 2008-09-01 04:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] airehen.livejournal.com
Very good review, all of it. :)

"Evil triumphs when good men do nothing."
Sometimes, I wish people would understand that more.

In spite of what society is (and is becoming), it's good to know there's still some morality out there.

Date: 2008-09-01 10:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] olde-fashioned.livejournal.com
Thanks!

I know. I don't subscribe to the theory that you can be good and sit by while watching others do evil. There is such a thing as guilt by inaction.
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Date: 2008-09-01 10:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] olde-fashioned.livejournal.com
Oh, yes!! "Hiiiiiiii!!!!" rotflol. And the hand sanitizer!! Oh gosh...

"Let's not blow this out of proportion..."

"You think you can just steal from us and get away with it?!"

[pause] "Yeah...?"

Date: 2008-09-01 10:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] olde-fashioned.livejournal.com
Wow -- heheh, thank you! (I know I wrote an awful lot, lol)

Yes, yes, exactly! These movies are so much more than just pyrotechnics and cool gadgets. They have a heart, and a conscience.

Ohmygawsh, are you serious? Not to disparage your opinion -- you're entitled to it -- but you think Batman as a character is BORING?!?! I definitely would like you to explain why, please, because I'm very curious as to how anyone could find him boring. Do you find Bruce Wayne boring as well, or just the scenes when he's wearing the suit?

Well, it's difficult for me to gauge Maggie vs. Katie when the character annoys me and seemed to go almost in two different directions in the two movies. I thought Katie's performance was edgier, and IMO Maggie missed some of the rough edges and mannerisms that Katie's Rachel had. But that's just my two cents. ;-)

Oh my, the pencil trick!! I covered my mouth at that one....8-O

There's a rumour that the bank hero guy (who the Joker said "only makes you stranger" to) might turn up to be the Riddler in the next movie...

You forgot this one:

"I only have one rule."

"And tonight you're going to have to break that rule."

"I'm considering it!"

(I know I probably butchered that, but you get my meaning.) ;-P

Hanz Zimmer (who is very talented IMO) and James Newton Howard did the sountrack for both Batman movies. I think the music for both films is excellent and fitting, not "Hollywood" and something you hum as you walk out of the theater.

Yes, yes!! I'd like to see how Christoper Nolan would portray Catwoman. I rolled my eyes when I heard they were doing Raz al Ghul, I did it again when I heard about the Joker, but I lived to eat my words both times. I'm not going to utter a peep of complaint about the third installment until I see it for myself, lol. ;-P (and doesn't Selina Kyle have a bit of a "thing" for Bruce Wayne?!?!) ;-D
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Date: 2008-09-02 12:36 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] olde-fashioned.livejournal.com
Well, Batman wouldn't exist in the first place without the extreme level of crime, and I'm just as happy to watch him beat up Falcone the mob boss from BB as the Joker in TDK. ;-P That's another way it's more realistic, because the everyday threats and crimes are not always committed by psycopaths in makeup, and organized crime is still a serious issue.

I completely disagree that Batman/Bruce Wayne doesn't have any weaknesses. I think he's utterly flawed, but he tries incredibly hard to overcome that, and that's part of what makes him so interesting. To steal a brief quote from Anne of Green Gables, he's a man who could be wicked, but won't. (Also, if you remember from Batman Begins [spoiler alert!] he was going to kill the man who murdered his parents, and in TDK when he's playing chicken with the Joker he yells at himself because he tried to kill him and couldn't bring himself to.)

The Voice does take some getting used to, I'll admit!! ;-P I've never noticed a lisp -- I'll have to listen for that next time. I think he does it for two reasons; to sound scary and intimidating when addressing criminals, and also to hide his real voice, which might be recognized by someone such as Gordon, or Harvey Dent, whom he comes into contact with as Bruce Wayne.

I honestly think Bruce Wayne's "playboy-ness" is all an act, or at least in these two films. He clearly was interested in only Rachel, and while I know it could be argued things are going on *cough* "off screen" with the models and the ballerinas, I highly doubt it, because I think it contradicts the character.

Did the bank hero die? I thought he looked like he was going to die, with smoke coming out of that grenade. I don't think he is (and I hope he isn't!) the Riddler, because that's just kind of silly, I'm sorry. Everyone the Joker comes into contact with turns into a criminal? (and I agree they're too similar)

Well, I didn't think the Batman franchise could be fixed, either, before I saw the first movie. ;-P And then I didn't think the sequel would be up to par!

LOL, yes! Selina Kyle meets Bruce Wayne, and Catwoman meets Batman, only it's a while before either figures out that the other has an alter ego? *shrug* I've never read the comics, so I don't know how it's supposed to go.

The casting of Selina would be innnnttterrrrresssstinggggggg.......hehehe! ;-) Any ideas?

Now I read that Christopher Nolan said outright that Robin will not be appearing in his franchise, and that Christian Bale does NOT like the idea, either. ;-P (quite frankly, I'm relieved, although a recent discussion with a friend convinced me it would be very amusing to make Bruce have to put up with a bratty angsty teenager, while a laughing Alfred watches.)
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Date: 2008-09-02 03:36 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] olde-fashioned.livejournal.com
I've watched a bunch but not all of the most recent ones. I opted not to subject myself to Superman and the third installment in the Spiderman series. ;-P I've seen the first two, though, and the first X-men, which I agree had great potential.

LOL, between my dad and brother, I've seen the first one like fifty times!! ;-P So I don't expect everyone else to remember everything, lol. I don't think I've seen any performance of Christian Bale's that I would class as campy. Do you mean how Batman is almost "over the top" drama-wise?

I've never read the comics either, but I probably saw all of the Animated Adventures and then later the Batman/Superman series on the WB. I watched Batman Beyond, too. I remember the Riddler from both of the former, and he's always been kind of silly in my mind, but then again, I felt the same way about the Joker...

Pleeeeeeaaaaaassssse not Johnny Depp. He's a good actor, but he's not right for this. He's too Tim Burton, and they just moved Batman away from all that!! *facepalm*

Ugh, not Scarlett -- Christian Bale starred with her in Christopher Nolan's The Prestige, anyway, so I doubt they'd do a repeat of that. Plus I've always envisioned Selina as darker, both physically (hair color) and emotionally. I'd like to see her made into something a little bit more complex than a greedy cat-crazy woman with an eye for expensive baubles.

Angelina Jolie -- I would have a coronary. Natalie Portman? Mmm, not bad. Maybe! Is Rachel Weisz too old? (ooh, or how about Rosamund Pike? lol)

No, I haven't seen that!! My dad keeps talking about it, and saying we should get it, and I'll probably watch it when we do. ;-) I've only seen him in Reign of Fire (before Batman -- I really don't remember him at all), Little Women (he was the only decent thing about it imo), The Prestige, Rescue Dawn, 3:10 to Yuma, and of course the two Batmans.
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Date: 2008-09-02 06:12 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] olde-fashioned.livejournal.com
LOL, my younger brother does that as well, only he does it to amuse me and scare my dad when he's not looking, ha ha. ;-) He's actually pretty convincing.

How do you think a real vigilante who wished to conceal his voice would talk? I never thought about it, but I think going deeper and more gravelly would be easier than adopting a high-pitched squeak. ;-P

I've seen most of the older ones. Don't bother with them. *holds nose like a snob*

Oh, noooo, not Dr. WHO!!!!!!! I don't watch that show, but wouldn't he make it almost a parody?!? Arrrrrgggg. Heck, Paul Bettany (who wanted to play the Joker apparently) would make a better Riddler. * bangs head on desk *

Ooh, yes, that's right -- I was forced to endure parts of that 007 and I do remember her in that. And LOL, Jane!!! ;-P

Okay, according to IMDb Rachel Wiesz is three years older than Christian Bale, who's 34. So I guess it's possible...

Yeah, that movie annoyed me so much, but his Laurie was a thousand times better than the old Elizabeth Tailor version.
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Date: 2008-09-03 05:53 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] olde-fashioned.livejournal.com
Yeah. Well, I think I understand what you mean, but I still don't think he sounds fake at all. ;-)

He's not serious at all.

I think she's beautiful, but you're right -- she's wrong physically. She's too feminine, anyway, to probably pull off a very physical role.

I can't stand Scarlett, so that's probably my bias leaking through, lol. ;-) I'm tired of her.

Likewise! :-D Thanks for all the comments. :-)

Date: 2008-09-01 11:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] epea-pteroenta.livejournal.com
Over analysis of movies is good! :) It was an interesting review which I'm glad I read. A refreshing morality in Hollywood would be good.

I don't think I'm going to see the film because the first Batman film scared me a lot and this one is longer, darker and more violent (from what I've heard) so I think I'll wait for the DVD.

Date: 2008-09-02 12:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] olde-fashioned.livejournal.com
Thank you! :-D I'm glad you liked it. :-)

I completely understand how you feel. The first time I saw the movie, I wasn't "scared" but more startled (I don't scare easy) but having seen it fifty times since, I have gotten used to it.

Batman Begins was more the "pop up and go BOO" type of scary, with Scarecrow and all the deluded visions of the people who had been gassed, and for that reason I do think the first version was more "scary". The Dark Knight's type of scary is more of shock and horror, with the majority of the violence going on off-screen. (punches aside, of course) ;-P You're aware of what the Joker is probably doing to his victims, but there is no gratuitous bloodletting ala Mel Gibson, if that makes any sense.

Date: 2008-09-03 05:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sly-pig.livejournal.com
Glad you enjoyed the movie! ^_^ lol, And Spencer's been to the theater TWICE in less than a week! Good stuff. 8-)

Date: 2008-09-04 12:26 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] olde-fashioned.livejournal.com
I was hoping you'd see this!! ^-^

I know, and he doesn't even like theaters. ;-P You probably know (or can guess) who he's been quoting from all week. ;-P lol.

You have any favourite scenes, Nathan? :-)

Date: 2008-09-04 03:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sabrinafair2.livejournal.com
I'm actually very surprised you liked Batman.
I also grew up virtually seeing almost every Batman film and just now discovering the cartoons after the movie came out. I enjoyed it as well, although I wasn't entirely enthusiastic about it...it could be because I saw it at a drive-in where I could hardly hear anything. Personally Batman as a character bores me to a certain extent for some reason I've always been more interested in the villains.

Date: 2008-09-04 04:13 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] olde-fashioned.livejournal.com
*lolz at your icon*

Surprised that I liked, or surprised that I like? I know it's kind of an aboration for me, but I grew up watching it, so.... Plus I like intelligent films.

Have you seen the animated series you've got in your icon? The one by Paul Dini and the other guy who's name escapes me at the moment.

I'm hearing other people say his character bores them, as well, and I must confess I am all astonishment! Do superheroes in general bore you, or just Batman in particular?

Date: 2008-09-04 08:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sabrinafair2.livejournal.com
I actually liked Spiderman, against my better judgment, because although his powers are pretty unrealistic, he's just your average Joe. Actually Batman is the one of only two superheroes that I've actually become interested in. Perhaps it's his enormous fortune or constant broodiness that makes him a bit too emotionally distant for me to get really attached to the character. It also might be that I haven't seen Batman Begins yet. And as I said I find the villains' back-story fascinating. (I know why they didn't divulge the Joker's back-story in TDK, but I still wish they did.)

Date: 2008-09-04 09:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] olde-fashioned.livejournal.com
The first one wasn't horrible, but it wasn't even taking itself seriously and had a very campy flavor to it IMO. Plus James Franco irritates the heck out of me, lol. ;-P

Batman/Bruce Wayne's enormous fortune doesn't bother me at all -- it's part of what makes him believable, IMO. Instead of giving him supernatural and impossible powers, he's a flesh and blood man who just uses expensive toys, lol.

I agree that the character of Bruce Wayne/Batman has been emotionally distant in previous installments in the franchise, but I strongly disagree in regards to Begins and TDK. Christopher Nolan and Christian Bale really give him a heart and make him sympathetic and human. It is, as the title suggests, a story of how and why Batman came to be. Do watch Batman Begins, and let me know what you think of it! :-D

From what I've read Nolan said he chose not to explore the Joker's history for the simple reason of making him more "absolute." While it would have been interesting to get a glimpse into the psychology of the character, him being so utterly inhuman is part of his fearsome aura, IMO. ;-)

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