olde_fashioned | Sense & Sensibilty 2008 -- My Thoughts (part two)

Well, I've finally seen it! I've finally seen the duel!! 8-D *lol* And I must say, that the clever editing with the red sealing wax as "blood" was ingenious. I liked that very much.

I'm afraid I haven't much else to say, since this was pretty much what I expected, and I did like it, so I'll try to keep my snark to a minimum. *pause* Oh who am I kidding?? ;-P

This story always makes me cry. I can't help it! Be it the novel, Emma Thompson's version, or now this new adaptation, just something about the heart-rending poignancy of two sisters crossed in love, each with a seemingly hopeless love story, and yet they both get such beautifully happy endings. Marianne's illness and Elinor's fear of losing her beloved sister (Elinor's momentary panic at Marianne's apparent lack of breathing was gut-wrenching) and then the whole Brandon/Marianne/Willoughby love triangle. We are (or at least I am) left wishing for "the good guy" to get his reward and the woman he loves, and yet who wants to see the poor girl get her heart broken, which surely must happen in order for her to marry anyone but Willougby? And then Elinor and Edward!! Once we learn of the existence of Lucy Steele, my my. I couldn't have dreamed up Jane Austen's ending if I tried for a hundred years. :-D

I couldn't help but see the ghost of S&S 1995 lurking in every corner. Certain dialogue, yes, I know it's from the book, but the delivery either reeked of S&S '95 or it went in the entirely opposite direction to "avoid" being similar. (I think P&P 2005 fell into a similar trap, but I suppose it's hard for a new adaptation to compete with such a well-loved predecessor.)

I do not like Mrs. Jennings at all. Why didn't the Palmers leave when Marianne got sick? Then we could have had Mrs. Jennings nurse Marianne and then Marianne would have yet another person she had misjudged turn out to be entirely different from what she had previously believed, proving her judgment flawed. I do think that Marianne's lack of perception is part of the theme of the novel.

Hooray for Edward vs. Monster Mommy! (I wonder if Jane Austen fashioned Mrs. Ferrars after Grendel's mother? *hmmm* There's an idea.) But what a witch! I felt like cheering for Edward when he stood by his obligation to Lucy, even though I can't stand her. To quote the 1995 Mrs. Jennings, "he stood by her, good man!" I still can't get excited about Edward Ferrars (he's my second to least favourite, trumped only by the uber-masculine and heroic Edmund Bertram of Mansfield Park) but I do applaud his steadfastness in regard to honouring a decision that he no longer desires to uphold. Both Edward and Elinor exhibit admirable amounts of self-control and selflessness. (*coughMarianneareyoulistening?cough*)

That hideous Dashwood child was there again! This time playing with what looked like ceramic figurines...if he treats his toys anything like he treated Margaret's poor pony, then I pity his poor porcelain victims!

Did anyone else notice the back of Elinor's striped dress, the one she wears when she's sitting on the bed after she's learned of Edward standing by Lucy, and then later again when he proposes at Barton Cottage?? Helloooooo it's Lizzy's from the 2005 P&P!! ~~It's her Pemberley sculpture gallery dress! It has the same embroidery on the back bodice seams, and I swear they just dyed it a purpley-pink.~~ [Edit: Upon closer examination, it appears to be a mere knock-off, not the exact dress used in P&P.] [News flash! New Sense & Sensibilty to be released under alternate title: Raiding Elizabeth Bennet's Closet!] If it's not the same exact dress, then it's a pretty doggone close copy. HERE is a pic of Lizzy's dress on display at Chatsworth, IIRC, but I don't have one of Elinor. Sorry! (if anyone else has one I'd be very much obliged if you'd let me know about it!)

I was very disappointed that we STILL did not get a "declaration of love" from Colonel Brandon. Here so much effort has gone into establishing what a "true romantic" the Colonel is, and yet we don't even get to hear him propose??? GAH!! *sigh* Oh well. I can hope for S&S4.

Okay, enough negativism. I loved that Colonel Brandon has hawks!! Okay, so far only one hawk, but I still like that. Hawks are so intrinsically romantic, and calling Marianne over so she can pet it was cute. :-) (and prettyprettypretty music during that scene!!) I want his library. I want his horse. (such a pretty tail...) And I want to know what that piece of music is that he gave to Marianne to learn!! *stomps foot* Hopefully it's a classical piece so I can iTunes it. ;-D

I really, really liked this Elinor. She's probably pretty close to how I imagine her in my mind while reading the novel. Suitably elegant, with a very pretty radiance of complexion that would do any Austen heroine proud. ;-) I did like her hair, except for those stupid bangs. They were distracting.

Speaking of bangs, WHAT was wrong with Eliza's hair???? :-/ It was a nice touch to have Colonel Brandon (henceforth CB, since I'm getting sick of typing out his name each time) come and visit his fallen ward. I like it when they have the heroes interact with babies and children. (It's like having a big flashing arrow over his head that says "GOOD GUY! GOOD GUY!" Quite unlike Willoughby, who's dark hair, squinty eyes, and caddish manner of carrying himself just shrieks "villain".) And he actually smiled!! Whaddaya know! You know, costume-drama-makers, it actually *is* okay to let the hero smile for more than a millisecond. We won't hate him for it, really. I promise.

CB catching Marianne when she faints was not in the book, but I liked it anyway. ;-D Very nice touch! (as was the "white knight in shining armor" riding to save damsel-in-distress in the rain...)

Since when is CB an expert on hypothermia?? (and boy was I relieved when he relinquished the task of getting her wet things off to Elinor!! *whew* I thought we were in for yet another Davies surprise...)

I think that's it, but I've probably forgotten something since it's so late. One closing remark: I agree with Elinor! We need more Colonels!! ;-P

(my review for part one may be viewed HERE)

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

ibmiller.livejournal.com

It may be more well-made, but I think Elinor looks much better in it. :-)

I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say that Michele Clapton ripped Jacqueline Durran off. I think it's more likely that they both responded to the spirit of our decade's idea of Jane Austen. Additionally, I'm never quite sure what to think of the P&P costumes, since my costume-savvy friends strongly disagree about them - some of them hate the costumes because they say they're a confused mishmash of periods, some of them think they're okay, and I am just confused what the whole deal Joe Wright was making about the high waistline was, since I thought the waistlines in the final film ended up being really high anyway.

From:

olde-fashioned.livejournal.com

I agree with you there!!

I strongly dislike it when one movie "borrows" costuming ideas from another for the main characters. I am fine with the secondary characters and extras wearing dresses from old productions, but the stars?? Come on. Let's have a little creativity, here.

P&P's costumes are indeed a riddle. It's a well known fact that Joe Wright dislikes the period-correct Empire waistlines, but the presence of both the earlier lower-waistlines and the later high-waistlines in the same film is highly confusing. If you'll notice it's mostly the Bennet family who are out dated, with Mrs. Bennet wearing costumes that are as old as the 1770s or '80s. When they attend the Netherfield ball they "dress up" and wear more current fashions, which is reasonable, since they do live in the country and would probably have to make do and wear older, less trendy clothes. I'm willing to make allowances for things like that, a conscious but careful decision on the part of the costumer to further develop the characters via fashion or the lack of it.

And now I will shut up since that's probably way more than you wanted to hear anyway. ;-)

From:

ibmiller.livejournal.com

No, no, I love talking about it - I'd love to be a costume expert, but since I'm not, I love learning about them.

I agree with you about creativity, though I also know that budget is often an issue with the Beeb. I actually have heard that it was Marianne's dresses that were borrowed from Knightley. But I don't know if it's true, or if so, what they are.

As for P&P's costumes, I've also noticed that Mrs. Bennet tends to have the lowest waistlines, while the younger girls have much higher ones. Thus, it seems like a generational thing. However, though one of my costumey friends has said that sleeveless dresses are indeed period accurate for a very brief span, I still think Caroline's Netherfield Ball dress is really jarring.

From:

olde-fashioned.livejournal.com

I'd love to be a costume expert

So would I!!

Marianne's brown velvet dress that she wears in the promo photo (in your icon) and when she plays the library piano at Delaford is Lizzy's Pemberley dress in P&P. There has been talk that her white sheer dress with the blue sash that she wears sitting on the grass with Elinor is Marianne Dashwood's from the '95 S&S, and this website HERE (http://www.costumersguide.com/reused_regency.shtml) might be of some interest to you. :-)

Lady Catherine also has the 1770s/1780s-ish costumes, which I took to be an attempt to show how unyielding and stubborn she was. Older people are commonly portrayed as wearing "the fashions of their youth" in films. ;-)

sleeveless dresses are indeed period accurate for a very brief span

Not in England they weren't. As far as I am aware, the only surviving historical proof of "sleeveless" outergarments is a Russian example, and Russia (as well as several other countries) had very different ideas of fashion than England and France. They're not always interchangeable. This was a big subject of discussion over at The Republic of Pemberley (http://www.pemberley.com/) when the movie came out.

From:

ibmiller.livejournal.com

Huh. My friend said she found a fashion plate with sleeveless dresses - I'll have to ask her about that. However, even if they were period, I think the jarring factor remains - it just doesn't feel like they cared enough about the period (especially when it comes to manners - such as Lizzy and Darcy walking about in their nightclothes, or Bingley walking into Jane's room while she's in bed).

Thanks for the website!

From:

olde-fashioned.livejournal.com

Well if she did then that's something I'd love to see!! I could be wrong, if she's found a plate, but it's still an unconventional trend that is rather "out there" even for Caroline Bingley. ;-)

Don't even get me started about the running around half-dressed and the men popping into the heroines' bedrooms. *facepalm*

My pleasure!

From:

ibmiller.livejournal.com

Hee, parallel icons. :-)

And do start on half-dressed antics - I was really torn on the film because of that. On one hand, it had very nice acting, decent writing, and beautiful music and photography. On the other hand, it seemed to completely ignore the time period. So frustrating.

From:

olde-fashioned.livejournal.com

;-D I do that all the time.

Alright then -- you asked for it!! haha.

I too, was kind of torn, because aesthetically, it's fantastic. Gorgeous scenery (makes for fantastic icons) wonderful music, pretty costumes when they're accurate (!), and decent casting except for Donald Sutherland who I cannot stand. I loved Rosamund Pike and Tom Hollander, and Judi Dench is great in everything. I can even tolerate Kiera, if she didn't run around with that funny half-gape half-smirk expression on her face. But I'm being picky now. ;-)

The ending almost works, because the very idea of a daybreak jaunt is inherently romantic, but the lack of clothing?? Please. Darcy was staying at Netherfield, right? And that's three miles away. So I'm supposed to believe that he walked half undressed in the dark for three miles, to meet Lizzy who's also conveniently half undressed. Historical issues aside, wouldn't they be cold??

Bingley in Jane's bedroom. *grimace* In the book he sent a servant up to inquire after her health, so that's a totally stupid scene to add in. I think Joe Wright just wanted to show off his expensive Japanese wallpaper.

I know I tend to be overly critical of this version, because I do like it, but I'm not sure I want to buy it, because (as I heard someone put it so well) it's a wonderful love story, just not Pride & Prejudice. I'm too much of a purist I guess.

From:

ibmiller.livejournal.com

I agree with everything you’ve said here, though I saw it twice in theaters (which, for me, is like most people seeing it twenty times) and preordered it. I also own the soundtrack and have played some of the music on the piano. However, because of the historical inaccuracies, and the director’s conscious decision to tick off Janeites, I tend to criticize it quite a bit. I think that it is Pride and Prejudice, but only because I think the characters are generally well-done. The overromanticism is just not Jane Austen.

As for Bingley in Jane’s room, I nearly howled in fury in theaters when that happened. However, to be fair, the 1940 P&P did that as well, and the 1983 and 2008 S&S also do it. I still think it’s kinda lazy.

From:

olde-fashioned.livejournal.com

I Netflixed it twice. I don't care for Joe Wright, even if Rosamund Pike is engaged to him. :-P

Darcy dropping off his letter at Hunsford is another irritation.....

I've seen the 1940 P&P but I really don't remember much of it, other than the archery and Lady Catherine's change of heart...;-P I was ready to throw things at Andrew Davies for writing a scene that he knew better than to include. I did hear that Elinor was supposed to be in the room but there were scheduling and costuming issues that prevented it. And as much as I dislike that, I don't think comparing P&P's "hero-in-the-sickroom" is the same as S&S's. In S&S, he has just saved her life, and they've been through a lot together, whereas Jane and Bingley hardly even know each other. Not to justify it, mind!! I'm just pointing that out. :-)

From:

ibmiller.livejournal.com

Yes, and Lizzy’s whole catatonic stare thing, and the almost kiss in the rain, and the dumb “intercourse” joke…

And I think you’re right about S&S 2008. I rather wish the scene wasn’t there, but it makes more sense than in P&P 2005. Additionally, you get the sense that Andrew Davies cares about the source material and the era. Joe Wright seems to like Jane Austen okay, but only his version, and he outright despises both the period (at least fashionwise and manners) and thinks the fans are stupid (and who, might I ask, is watching your movie?)

Although, who wouldn’t want to see more of Jane Bennet? :-) Just saying that Bingley has good motivation to break protocol.

From:

olde-fashioned.livejournal.com

Oh, the kiss. *grimace* What the heck was THAT??? Totally stupid and senseless. Forget the fact that it's not in the book -- it doesn't make any sense!! Why would she want to kiss the guy she's chewing out? Umm....newsflash people, she hates him at this point in the story.....

I used to think that about AD, but now I'm not so sure. I think he's gotten a very big ego and he thinks that Austen's flawed (not that she's perfect, mind, but P&P *has* been called the "most perfect novel in the English language" by means of structure and concise story-telling) and that Andrew The Great is the only one to fix them. He's also gotten rather licentious IMO, what with Northanger Abbey and now Willoughby and Eliza. People liked Jane Austen long before AD was around to "spice" them up.

Speaking of disrespect for one's fanbase, Rupert Penry Jones sais something similar, and I haven't liked him since. :-P

Maybe a good excuse but not a good idea...the poor girl's sick!! She would most likely be highly embarassed.

From:

ibmiller.livejournal.com

That was exactly my response. I can get the whole “attracted instantly thing,” but really, they both think they hate each other (at least, Elizabeth does), and so right in the middle of yelling at each other (in a very Un-Austen-like manner, too) they want to start making out? It’s like that scene in Ratatoiullie, except not played for comedy (and not in France). And you’re spot on when you say that the reason it’s bad doesn’t have anything to do with not being in the book – tis stupid all by itsownself.

Well, it really depends on what interviews you’re reading. In his shorter, more sensationalist interviews, I tend to think that it’s mostly a PR stunt (not that I condone it, just that I don’t give them too much weight). In his more serious interviews, however, he says that Jane Austen is his favorite author, and demonstrates great respect for her brilliance (and what makes her so brilliant – the quality of her characters, the intelligence of the plot, and the beauty of her writing). He’s also never really said that Pride and Prejudice needs fixing – the added scenes he wrote were more for interpretation’s sake rather than improvement. And I actually agree with him about Sense and Sensibility needing a rewrite – though I don’t think he’s trying to say that his version is the definitive and best rewrite (after all, he also says he thinks that the 1995 film was good as well, though not his take).

As for the licentiousness, I don’t like certain things (the bath, mostly), but I think the seduction opening is no worse than the Wickham making out with random woman in the flashback of P&P (or his dalliances with Lydia). Also, I appreciate the chronology of it (and wish the same scrupulousness had been applied to the duel).

I think that almost all of Davies’ “racy” additions (except for the bath) have solid basis in the text, and while I don’t know how great they are, I don’t think he’s making things up.

Oh, and I actually think Emma is better than P&P in terms of writing skill.

And I was just kidding about Bingley going into Jane’s room. But Jane is a great reason to go places. ;-)

From:

olde-fashioned.livejournal.com

I don't think Darcy ever hates Lizzy; he's stuck-up and contemptuous of her connections (or lack thereof) in the beginning but he is intrigued by her, and then later as we all know he falls head over heels for her. Lizzy, on the other hand, hates his guts, and with good reason!

I haven't bothered to see that rat movie.

I'm kind of torn about AD sometimes. I love his P&P and Emma, and I did enjoy his new S&S and NA, but the bath scene and The Monk scenes in the latter bother me. Neither were in the book, and neither were necessary. I can understand that Isabella and Frederick is "possible" if you reallyreally stretch the text but in no point of the story does Catherine read a salacious novel. It totally flies in the face of the whole character JA was trying to create, IMO.

For the record I dislike "Darcy Takes a Swim" as well. And I wish we (the viewers) did not know Darcy was the means of making Wickham marry Lydia until Lizzy finds out. It makes for a better surprise and revelation. But oh well.

Is AD fond of JA because he thinks she's brilliant, or because she has made others think HE is brilliant??

Yes, you're right -- the editing with the S&S duel makes those of us who are not familiar with the novel think that they are duelling over Marianne!! *facepalm* Whoops...

I whole-heartedly agree with you there!! Emma is my favourite, and it's much more subtle than P&P, IMVHO...

Great reason, perhaps, but self-control is also a great virtue. ;-)

From:

ibmiller.livejournal.com

Well, over at

only_a_novel we’ve debated back and forth on whether Frederick and Isabella are possible, with me usually on the “possible” side. I just get a really sexual tone from Captain Tilney in his “Always to be watched” dialogue with her. Catherine’s reading of The Monk is annoying, especially since that’s the book she really should burn at the end of the film, and not poor Udolpho. However, I don’t think Catherine herself is ever portrayed as salacious – her reactions to the reading seem much more innocent and surprised rather than savoring forbidden pleasures.

You didn’t like the swim? Awww, I’m a guy, and I thought it was fun. But then, swimming is kinda fun. And I enjoyed the awkwardness that followed – I thought it really made his asking about Lizzy’s parents twice funnier. As for the “Darcy as Avenging Angel” sequence, I thought it really allowed his character to grow, and it kind of had to take place there or it would feel like a major digression when it was related later. I’m not as into surprises and revelations (I don’t really care about “twists”), so my preference here isn’t surprising.

I never get the impression that he’s using Jane Austen to empower himself. For Pride and Prejudice, he clearly adored the source material and wrote the script out of passion for the text and his interpretation. Emma he liked quite a bit, and he went on from there to write the first draft of the Northanger Abbey script, so I think he was partly motivated by the success of Pride and Prejudice and partly from his love of her works. Before he was famous (in the pre-P&P1995-release videos and interviews) he said he loved Jane Austen for her tight, lean plots and her brilliant, loveable characters, and that’s exactly what he says now, so I don’t think his love for Jane Austen is about the fame.

Good stuff. Emma lovers of the world, unite!

And Bingley doesn’t have self control in that version – at least, I’m pretty sure he gets really tipsy at the Netherfield Ball. A pity, because I love Mr. Bingley.

From:

ibmiller.livejournal.com

Finally heard back from my friend, and she concurred that it was Russian with a possibility of moving to France. Another friend noted that it's highly unlikely that even someone as trendy as Caroline would wear it, as that much skin exposed would be tacky. So I think my initial reaction that the sleeveless dress is anachronistically modern was spot-on.

From:

olde-fashioned.livejournal.com

See, that's what I heard on Pemberley, and I agree. Her "gown" looks like a chemise. *facepalm*

From:

ibmiller.livejournal.com

I actually thought it looked like a tank top or prom dress.

From:

olde-fashioned.livejournal.com

Hahaha. I thought it might have been a reallyreally short sleeved dress with the sleeves caught up and pinched, but alas, no such luck.

From:

ibmiller.livejournal.com

Uh, oh, my friend actually did a bit more research and came up with some confusing data. According to Mirror of Graces; or the English Lady's Costume, which is available online here (http://digicoll.library.wisc.edu/cgi-bin/DLDecArts/DLDecArts-idx?id=DLDecArts.MirrorGraces), "The bosom and shoulders of a very young and fair girl may be displayed without exciting much displeasure or disgust." This seems to indicate that a sleeveless dress might have more weight...but I'm really not sure what this information means.

From:

olde-fashioned.livejournal.com

Hmmm. I'm going to preface this and everything else that I've said with a big I'm-no-expert-so-I-might-very-well-be-wrong. ;-) But what I would gather from that, is not "sleeveless" but short sleeves, and probably, er, um, lower necklines that are off the shoulders.

Like these:

http://www.marquise.de/en/1800/arte/a181x_3.shtml

http://www.globalgallery.com/prod_images/cor-cs007187.jpg

http://library.georgetown.edu/dept/speccoll/guac/edwards_03/edwards_gerard_recamier_1918.jpg

See how they're really short, but still there? It's kind of a fine line, but the Madame Recamier one is closest to Caroline's, but this was almost certainly "undress" and not meant to be worn to a ball. ;-)

From:

ibmiller.livejournal.com

That makes a lot of sense. I don't think Caroline's dress was meant to be undergarments - the fabric seems too finished/satiny and dressy to be a chemise or what-have-you (displaying my ignorance, I am). But those are indeed some very illuminating paintings.

Even if it was accurate, which I think it is pretty firmly not, I think it jerks the viewer out of the story (at least it did me) and makes them think "Wow, what a modern dress."

From:

olde-fashioned.livejournal.com

I don't either, and I agree with you -- it's jarring. I think it was supposed to be a "look-how-fashion-forward-little-miss-snob-is". (I also think her hair is rather modern and trendy, in that horrid "pompadour" fad with a '60s-ish poof on the top half of her head.

Thought you might be interested in this rather than "listen" to me prattle on all day. ;-P

http://www.songsmyth.com/costumerscompanion.html